2018 Rescue of boys soccer team from Thai cave system


#21

I’m not a genius (at least since my head injury in 87) but that situation was in 77 and I was working with air and breathing systems daily… the CO2 problem was always in our faces… so when mentioned, it was right there as an answer… just had to be asked the question.
To many questions about the Thai diver… Seal training makes on tough, and provides the training… but not specifics about cave rescue diving… It always made me nervous just doing it for fun… and I was in the habit of calling off a dive of any kind if there was a contraindication of any sort… I was taught that divers lived longer if they " never make the same mistake once!"
I have to run, shee’s back… but still a bit antsy in my mind… and hers apparently.

fast edit: you could look up co2 poisoning or toxicity or such and see why it is very serious… as to why, see Daltons Law of partial pressures… I’ll send you a note re that later… read that stuff first. ha ha.


#22

Your experience certainly helped. I will read that thanks. I do hope they find a way that is safe for everyone involved. Hope all “settles” for you.


#23

@TerriB Big problems can best be solved using everybodys experiences…

I think that is why Tomnod works well, isn’t it… sometimes it bogs down a bit for the same reasons… and that is why it sometimes seems to have too many layers…
to prevent information overload… how much did we learn about brick ovens… in Punjab… how much did we learn about Punjab… for that matter, over the years how much have we figured out about Tomnod… some people more than others I guess, but we personally have amassed a huge amount of eperience with all of it…
that is what crowdsourcing is about… a great and very successful experiment… but still requiring checks and balances… AND lots of patience and thought.

Anyway, I’m now going to try to write a SIMPLE explanation about CO2 risk…
I tried to think about it while out this morning and it is simple but very complex… ha.
Trouble is it can kill you while you think (or not) about it.

I’l PM that to you… but not until I do it.

My Friend went to a senior social function it seems… and that is good, she needs to relax right now…


#24

You are right @Doug4 that is why is works. It is a great experience for learning and pushing yourself to add more knowledge about countries, cultures, traditions, foods, agriculture, etc. you are also right…

:slightly_smiling_face::slightly_smiling_face:


#25

In the best interest of safety for everyone involved, this may be the right move for the time being.


#26

#27

#28

Wow, that would be so cool if they succeed with any of the ideas; reminds me of the capsule made to bring up those Chilean miners :smiley:


#29

Exactly what I was thinking…it took time, but all were brought to the surface safely! I hope they can do the same in Thailand.


#30

I hope the submarine came make any sharp turns in the cave… or fit through any tight spots. Keeping my fingers crossed.


#31

This new idea of putting a tunnel down that is closer to their location, I think I like better. Now the weather will dictate which method they decide to try.


#32

I can’t help but remembering how they (the kids) said they could hear a dog barking and children playing/talking). Sure wish they could find that spot and tunnel down from there.


#33

When you sit in the dark, even a small drip of water into a pool can make noises that can mimic almost any sound you can imagine… they sat like that for 9 days… I can imagine that they had no difficulty dreaming up all sorts of things… still I can think of places where odd things have helped find an easy if dangerous way out of a cave system… the oddest was a sudden strong odour of gasoline… people went looking to see where it was coming from… it was unmistakeable… they soon saw light and crawled out. that is the rescuers… and found that they had passed under a farm yard and the owner had spilled some while fueling his truck… and since at that point the cave was only a few dozen feet lower… it went straight into it…
Needless everybody wanted out ASAP… It was after finding the way out that it they learned it had only been a few drops that got away… thankfully… I wasn’t there and most people inside were able to switch to electric lamps… they had been using carbide… duh. The landowner knew of the cave, but never associated it with being connected to the search site… forget where it was… somewhere in the southeast… TAG country I think… TN AL GA… that is.

As for the Elon Musk thing… not really a sub in the usual sense I think… more like a water tight box with an air supply… probably aimed at the younger ones… but I don’t have any information on the size… but it is probably there on SpaceX site.

I think it is good idea but as you said they have a good idea of Width and Depth dimensions, but if you have ever moved a couch, length can be limiting… one could send a test object ballasted and adjustable to test the limits… I think the older boys could handle the diving thing without it… but all kids can surprise you… and adults.
I remember way back they had a stretcher (Neill-Robertson) that was originally designed for the Navy… and intended to be used taking subjects through portholes of a certain size… was also good for hatches etc. They were using them in England for sump rescue… tank between the legs and a face mask… but not on this scale.
I did notice that they were excavating some of the passage walls…a bit but today it said that they were enlarging a drain tunnel experimentally to increase flow. Wondering if they tried smoothing out that tight section… but they might have accidentally blocked it… given Mr. Murphy… and didn’t risk to much… Time will tell, i was just watching an Eastern tv news from Ontario… seems they are underway now! but I haven’t confirmed that report or when it was broadcast… but it was only the CTV continuous news service… got to run.

Edit: just saw a full report of the same thing… the other one was a popup… this was a story… says a mix of civilian cave rescue divers and military have been heading into the cave… because… they have the lowest water levels in weeks and there is heavy rain nearby… no time for subs or drilling holes. @TerriB I did see that they have been using an underground radio to fix a position for such a project… I suspected they would get one in… my generation ones were massive in size, hopefully 30 plus years has allowed improvement… they work like avalanche beacons… when you get the antennas aligned to max signal, they are in line and one is directly over the other… or supposed to be… lots of room to miss in the old days… Night folks


#34

:smiley: The rescue has started, they’re diving them out one at a time, 2 expert divers to each child :crossed_fingers: :pray::crossed_fingers::pray::crossed_fingers::pray:


#35

:clap:First 2 boys have been rescued :clap: :smile:


#36

Just waking here… CNN reports 4 have been evacuated at this point… and the operation has been paused… might just be while a new evac team goes in… they also have to evac the rescue teams along the route, those need to be adequate numbers and fresh… but they cannot afford to block the route needlessly… but there is little information so far on that part… it’s like trains running on a single track…things have to move both ways, and right now the outbound expresses will have priority. but inbound can be scheduled carefully. Good News is that they have proved it can be done safely…


#37

I hope they can get that signal and know exactly above where to look for alternatives.


#38

The entire world is “holding their breath” waiting to hear. I hope it continues to be a successful mission!


#39

‘19.47 The 4th wild boar is out of the cave’ according to the Thai NaveySEAL FB page.
5 and 6 are on their way out.


#41

Hi: I would assume that they will keep many of the ‘Search’ mode operations in the area will be kept active… Sometimes it is best to work a locator from the entrance inward if they have NO idea where they are heading to… finding even the old map gave them that, so perhaps they did use the ‘discovery’ site early, Just depends on what the terrain and the other variables deal you… our old ones were awkward, but did work… As I said 30 years of new tech development will have made a difference.
They probably have used portable laser survey equipment as well… not the GPS stuff of course, the GPS system is out of reach underground… but you can take a more primitive survey result and fairly confidently transfer the result to the GPS for the surface… We used to do cave survey using Brunton field transits… with a good operator and some time and technique, you could ‘close a loop’ pretty well. I know I managed to get some (surface work) of about a Km to close within 1 cm vertical and horizontal… but that was a major effort for me but it was worth the effort since once closed, the loop validated all the survey underground as well… but that is a different story… some other time…

At some point in time next dry season, you can bet that this will all be surveyed in detail… access points could be created but not for general use… not to mention engineered points for drainage based on the hydrology there… either gravity fed or as pumping sumps. just hook up your portable pump… always money.

One thing that I found interesting in the news feeds on this… Did you see the green fences as they were prepping for the rescue attempts… they had signs on them that warned of DANGER Explosives on them… Was that because they had explosives there, the so called ‘instant cave’ approach (or ‘instant No Cave’)
Or just some unused signs that people do tend to OBEY.!